75ZT Community

Two unarmed female police officers have been killed in a gun and grenade attack in Greater Manchester, which led to the arrest of a wanted man.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19635239

Disgusting. Words fail me. Although I imagine that will raise the capital punishment argument again, that and routinely arming Police officers:(

All ready has on .org Paul.

Would suggest that no matter what legislation/deterrent/punishment is in place there's probably no stopping someone who is intent on carrying out such crimes.

At least he's given himself up, so no one else was put at risk.

Sorry for the families.

It is a bad business when 2 police officers get murdered going about their routine work and all that will happen is that the suspect will spend a long time in prison at great expense to the country. It is tragic for the families of the deceased.

So far as capital punishment goes why not always call it as it is - the death penalty, but add the suffix ’for murder’. The softening and sanitisation of terms that just might cause offence to the gent on a ‘bus somewhere in Surrey that has gone on for years is half the problem with the lack of deterrent sanctions. The sensibilities of the chattering classes have had far too much sway for too long. (So glad to see the proposed return of proper elementary and secondary education being mooted - about time our kids stopped learning lino cuts and took Latin).

The latest murders were planned in detail by a man who was already being sought for murder, and who deliberately set it up - if we are to believe statements made by senior Police officers on TV. The rage we feel over these incidents lends strength to the clarion calls for the death penalty for murder, there - it’s as easy to write as to say- but in my view that’s too quick a release for the criminal.

If imprisonment is to ‘work’ ie deter, then it must perform a useful function. Hang a man and he is dead - virtually painlessly. And useless. Let his incarceration, in severe privation, help those of us who rage at the machine that seems not to give a damn if the horny-handed are attacked, but can muster very different resources for the wealthy and connected, both victims and criminals.

Jumper wrote:So far as capital punishment goes why not always call it as it is - the death penalty...

Or, as might also be thought, let's not pander to the LCD of the gutter press

Some cultures believe in an eye for an eye. I can't see such a thing ever returning to the UK. Last year I was stopped at a police road block (in Africa) and was told had I not stopped, I could have been shot. There was evidence of this further along the road whereby a road user had been shot and had driven into a ditch. A deterrent which worked for me even though I had not committed an offence. Some could say this is an abuse of police being armed and the same could happen here if all police carried firearms. If that had been the case yesterday in Manchester who is to say if the outcome would have been different. I for one think it would have been.

Sorry, but we will now spend £££'s on a Court case, no doubt with a QC defending the scum!

Once convicted, will then spend £30,000 a year keeping the scum fed, exercised and entertained with 3 hot meals a day, fully equipped gym, Pool tables, plasma screen TV's and computer games!

We know that this scum has shot and killed at least 4 people, just get 20 feet of rope and the nearest lamp post and put this scum out of our misery!!

I will state my position and that is to bring back the death penalty for those who murder police officers.

And for Police who murder innocent civilians......

Gate Keeper wrote:I will state my position and that is to bring back the death penalty for those who murder police officers.

Does that mean that other murder victims are less worthy though?

raistlin wrote:

Jumper wrote:So far as capital punishment goes why not always call it as it is - the death penalty...

Or, as might also be thought, let's not pander to the LCD of the gutter press

Yes, point well made. There’s always a section of the press that competes in the gallop to the LCD. They appeal to the baser instincts of us all to inflict immediate and total retribution without a thought as to whether or not it works.

I believe he who murders with deliberation does not merit mercy, but to kill him in a red fog of revenge diminishes the executioner. When the executioner is the state, we are all diminished. I cannot accept that the likes of Dale Cregan should be able to diminish me as a result of his mad actions.

raistlin wrote:

Gate Keeper wrote:I will state my position and that is to bring back the death penalty for those who murder police officers.

Does that mean that other murder victims are less worthy though?

I am aware of the counter arguments which you and Bill have put forward. I will not change my view.

In follow up, I am sorry if my views have upset anyone. We are all different, for good or for bad.

No upset here. No good or bad either. Differing views are the spice of life and enlightening to all who are prepared to listen.

Jumper wrote:No upset here. No good or bad either. Differing views are the spice of life and enlightening to all who are prepared to listen.

Spot on.

Good, now opinion is allowed without sententious riposte, the thought of Dale Cregan's death inspires, not reduces me. He's a mad, grenade flinging dog, who needs his neck adjusting. Unfortunately with Ditherer Cameron et al, all that will happen is increased stealth taxes and the elderly retiring at 90 to keep this G4S protected detritus up to speed with their X boxes etc. (providing nice Uncle Jose from Brussels, lets him of course)

Yes Martin, people do get defensive, angry and forget moderation, although I’ve not noticed those on here. At least not those I’ve ignored! I thought all opinion was allowed, irrespective of replies; rude ones only work if they are answered. Even the word ’moderation’ seems inappropriate in these matters of such horror.

The trouble is this subject needs much more space to debate fully the finer points and alternatives than might hold the interest of users of this medium. So the blunt instrument of assertion crushes reason. It’s a shame, we might all learn something about ourselves if we could stand back a little, me included.

Jumper wrote:The trouble is this subject needs much more space to debate fully the finer points and alternatives than might hold the interest of users of this medium.

Might be worth a try though

raistlin wrote:

Jumper wrote:The trouble is this subject needs much more space to debate fully the finer points and alternatives than might hold the interest of users of this medium.

Might be worth a try though

I'm happy to contribute, but wouldn't want to monopolise space! The 'immediacy' of open forum doesn't lend itself too well to diatribes! There must be many misconceptions commonly held and I doubt if discussion on here would provoke national debate! Still, it might avoid the usual "I support this" or "that" without any given reason other than gut feeling - worthy though that may be. I wonder if a sticky?.......