75ZT Community

A defendant today stood charged with racially aggravated ABH. What initially confused us was that both the defendant and the injured party were white males, although it was clear that the I/P had spent a long time in sunnier climes.

The defendant pleaded guilty so there was no trial but an explanation of the case. Apparently, the defendant set upon the I/P in a bar in town because he was a "********* paki".

We then found out that during the taped interview he was asked what had provoked the attack, to which he said "he's a ********* paki... I'm a ********* Englishman".

It was pointed out to him that the I/P was, in fact, a South African student.

His reply? "... Well he sounded like a ********* paki"

There you have it then. An example of the "Master Race".

To make it plain to the uninitiated "Chicken Pie" is used in our swear word substitution filter in place of a four letter profanity.

Another clear example of the xenophobe in action Paul. Fortunately "Cretin" is not subject to the swear filter.

Why do I feel hungry now.

Mmmm, Chicken Pie!

In Court, anything said is relayed verbatim. It times it can be a little surreal to see a charming old lady advocate coming out with the most disgusting profanity without turning a hair

Unfortunately, it has been my experience that foot soldier members of both BNP and EDL find it difficult, if not impossible to articulate their particular brand of cretinous xenophobia without the support of such profanity.

A further difficulty arises when, as Chairman, you take them to task regarding their utterances at which point they (genuinely) apologise... unfortunately with the support of further profuse profanity. What can you do?

....get a swear box....

I'll never look at a Chicken Pie in the same light again?

I share the views expressed by posters on here, and abhor the attitudes displayed by such offenders.

I often wonder how products of our allegedly tolerant and outward looking society come to be filled with such apparent hate for their fellow man. Fortunately they are in a tiny minority, but attract disproportionate attention. Is that because their views are so shocking? Why do newspapers et al publicise organisations (you might even say ’disorganisations’) to the extent that they do?

Pundits trumpet our values of free speech and tolerance but are those true values if all that we tolerate is what we agree with? And are they mutually incompatible? There are now so many more ‘crimes’ of thought than ever before, more State insistence on ’progressive’ behaviour, dissenters are lambasted as ’deniers’, phobics (not a word, I know), and anti this/that/or the other. Where does free speech, if it exists at all, begin and end?

In this case the impression is the defendant, and the following is by no means a defence, adopted the racism from peer groups who can only function within a very limited circle, out of a desire to ’belong’. A matter of education surely?

Don't go blaming the teachers Jumper.....the Secretary of State for Education says they are all Marxists so it can't be their fault...

Yes of course, he’s a politician; important, above all criticism, and must be trusted with the levers of power!

Seriously, I wish we all could come around to the view that teachers are not exempt from all responsibility for job performance. Or that those pupils who fail to respond to the education system are not all morons.

Actually, my post was in no way critical of anyone, including the offender in the OP, although if I were a public defender I would work very hard in avoiding having to ‘defend’ such a person.

There must be thousands of rebellious pupils who simply are not interested in anything teachers have to say, I was one myself. I spent the last two years of secondary education doing nothing but playing in various groups around the North West of the country - a better education by far (those who know me might not agree). Even so, no one I new then ever would have dreamed of such behaviour.

Back to topic, my closing point in the earlier post was suggesting that much behaviour is learned from community influential peers and therefore a concerted attempt to educate such people as part of the sentence (following conviction) might be useful.
Unfortunately the older one gets the more desperate the outlook. I’m just glad our own pathetic attempts at parenthood have, in this respect at least, proved successful in that our two daughters are exemplary, being, in the main, copies of their mother.

I'd best not go down the route of discussing teachers and 'performance'...amongst many other things...unfortunately the general lack of understanding of how schools operate and how damaging to both staff and students the latest 'thinking' on the running of said institutions really is means that I no longer bother to point out the reality. Suffice to say my OH walked out of her Secondary School for the last time on Thursday and is already a different person for it...

Your assumption that being rebellious = not wanting to listen to teachers is over simplistic...having worked with the rebellious both as a teacher and as an adviser it soon became clear that the rebellion was often to do with the fact that they felt that they themselves were not listened to and the acts of rebellion were a response to that...often having folk listen to them and take them seriously and advise and help them was something that made a difference. The problem, more often than not, is that the 'education system' makes many feel inadequate...both staff and students...principally because being a 'system' it often fails to deal with people as individuals and does not value those who have abilities in areas other than the academic. Why? Because schools and individual teachers are judged for their performance on what academic qualifications they can churn out rather than on the far more sane criteria of how many well-rounded, thoughtful, creative, industrious and law-abiding souls leave the institution.

All loosely on topic I guess! I would add that there is, finally, some very good work now going on to improve the parenting skills of those that need it with the longer term aim of reducing the anti-social behaviour that often results from weaknesses in this area!

Unfortunately the meedyah do a great deal to reinforce reactionary prejudice and some groups / organisations / political parties actively encourage such bigotry for their own ends. So, in conclusion, I agree with you Jumper, a concerted effort to educate / inform as a way forward to changing attitudes and reducing prejudice has to be a positive way forward...

Jumper wrote: A matter of education surely?

There may have been inadequate explanation by me in the above. I was referring to mature individuals (as in the OP) needing certain 'guidance'. When the OP referred to witnesses lapsing into the vernacular and then sincerely apologising it seems to demonstrate a realisation that behaviour might be addressed.

I take the point about pupils reacting to the way they are treated, that essentially was what I was saying.

But in relation to mature defendants convicted of crimes of this nature (OP) I was suggesting that focussed instruction in social attitudes/relations with ongoing formal monitoring backed up by heavier sanctions may have a part to play. I wasn't referring to school teachers, rather trainers (of which I have experience). If we are serious about changing attitudes, that is. There’s far too much inconsequential hand-wringing and hopeless shrugs going on.