75ZT Community

One of my tasks at the defence college is the first line pastoral care of a proportion of the students.

This developed in the wake of the Deepcut inquiry and, in my view, is not a bad thing.

However, one of the less than pleasant aspects is that I have to investigate, as far as possible and in as sensitive a manner as possible, whether attempted suicides by students have anything to do with their life at the college.

Clearly then, one has to discover the root cause of such attempts and most of the reasons eventually given causes one to worry about the standard of individual our society produces these days.

No disrespect to the individuals concerned, but some of the explanations demonstrate a very low, to almost non-existant, threshold of resiliance and what an American author, D. A. Benton, if I recall correctly, called "intestinal fortitude", also known as guts, determination etc.

A simple resistance to and willingness to overcome, adversity.

Events which, whilst unpleasant, trying and maybe even mildly traumatic, are the sort of thing that I, as a young man and my generation would have dismissed, other than to mark down to experience, are the root cause of an increasingly profligate sub-culture of, for want of a further synonym, self-termination, in a frightening demonstration of the perceived lack of value of the individual's life.

I suspect that in this present, risk averse society where everybody has rights and nobody has responsibilities, we are developing a generation with the inner strength of a piece of wet tissue paper and I wonder where this is leading.

In a society where exams cannot be failed, merely not so highly graded. Where the mere word "fail" is a concept denied, or at least, it seems, outmoded in the seemingly inexorable march of "Somebody Elses Problem". Dare we even use the word "achievement" now?

Who is it that is charged with the task of instilling some backbonein our up and coming generation? How long will it be before the simplest of decisions (and the justification that goes with them) are devolved, delegated, avoided and classified as "SEP"?

I know this is a fairly negative view and I have to say that such instances are less than common BUT, they are becoming more common, in my experience, as our society becomes ever more cossetting and devoid of reality.

Just a thought, and up for discussion if anybody feels inclined.

I think I need the "mellow thread"

Mmmm, recently come into contact with people who have Had enough, some of the younger end do seem to have little drive or willingness to overcome what seem to me, the smallest of hills or obstacles. You really do want to kick them up the backside and tell them to just get on with life.
On the other side of the coin i have seen people who have literally nothing or nobody left in their life. that is the hard part, talking to these people on a posative attitude.

But why oh why does mr/mrs middle/working class, married, kids, good job etc etc suddenly decide this planet is not for them? what is the trigger? I can only wish you well with your research.

I am inclined to see the reverse...having worked with young people who have had to deal with and overcome problems in life that, yes, may come to many of us over 80 years...but for these individuals they have experienced the whole gamut and some by 18...in their case I have been quite amazed by their resilience and determination in the face of the grimmest of experiences.. I guess both extremes will be in evidence in any generation...though I do also concur that there are some, many(?) for whom the most common of challenges seem almost too much...ie. the laddie sailor who considered himself 'tortured' by the Iranians because they took away his ipod....

Yes, Raistlin you are right, I believe. We are averse to any risk these days and survival ultimately depends upon the exposure and coping with danger of some form or another.

How will a child who is protected from all risk, such as tree climbing or playing conkers, recognise an unforeseen danger when it does happen? I guess this just stresses them beyond their limited tolerance. There are exceptions, of course, but all the more notable because of their rarity.

We have all become too soft and will suffer for it.

Some children are exposed to risk - just look at the gang culture. Sure there were gangs in my days but now it seems these are even more wide spread. You have the killings, admittedly not that many otherwise they would not be reported but there must be other injuries being inflicted.

There is also the emrgence of the 'dependent society' - generations of a family who have never worked just claimed benefits. Some do seem to do well on this but for others it must be a grim life that they have created for themselves. How many employers would employ them if they suddenly thought they wanted to improve their lot - on their CV would be 'On the social for x years'.

Perhaps as well the number going to university - no job at the end of it relevant to the degree. Plus how equipped are they for the big outside world. A few years back I interviewed 4 people who had just graduated and a woman in her early 50s as she had some experience that would be relevant to the job, the others had the theory of what was required. The only one that was employable was the woman in her early 50s (and she did not expect to get the job because of her age).

As a Secondary School teacher I can honestly say that the current generation are far too cossetted. I am forever telling my students that they need to 'Grow a Pair' or 'Man Up'. Nothing is their fault, if they don't get their target grade in an exam, it's the teacher's fault. If something doesn't benefit them directly, it's not worth doing. Everything is about 'me', very little is about 'us'. The league tables have just re-inforced this, headteachers wanting to use their position in the table as a kind of 'who can pee the highest up the wall' competition. So we end up giving up countless lunchtimes, after school sessions and days in the holidays, in order to drag out a grade from a student that has shown no interest all year in order to please those above.

It would take a very brave head to turn round and say they were going to just let the kids get the grade they deserve because he would fall down those league tables and be classed as a failure. As you say, they're not allowed to fail. In fact one of the courses I teach you cannot 'fail', it is called 'not passed'! I know, what a joke.

The Government(s) keep dishing out speel about student's becoming independent learners. Would they accept a drastic drop in the pass rate of GCSE's and A levels? I doubt it very much, but that is what would happen.

I know this is a generalisation, and thank God for those wonderful kids who do put others first and do actually give it a go. But, unfortunately, they do stand out because they are in the minority.

Is it because we, teachers, are not allowed to tell them how it is? I had a teacher who used to make us stand in the bin and say I am rubbish if you got something, she considered to be fairly easy, wrong. Certainly made you make sure you had done your homework and prepared properly for her lessons. Only one member of her class didn't get an A.

Just my two penneth...

Chris - I often wonder how they recruit teachers to some of the 'rough' parts of towns of the country. It always amazes me that little Johhny has done something wrong and has been punished and then their parents kick up a fuss that it is all unfair, they have been victimised and they are going to sue for compensation.

In my day, do something wrong in class and the board duster would be flying through the air towards you. Parents would also support the teachers.

No smacking of children, even by parents. The more and more common place use of swear words in speech with some not being able to say a single sentence without the F word in it! The latest is that anyone can say what they want to the police and they will not be arrested. The slippery slope is nearing 90 degrees.

Having worked in what was, unfortunately, a 'sink' school for the city one of the things that was very very noticeable was just how many of the kids were remarkably content with their 'lot'...that is, to live on their local estate, never travel and never 'do' very much of anything at all...just happy to eat, drink, watch Tv and, well, not much else really! What use had they for qualifications? They had nothing to strive for because they believed they had all they would ever want...just like their parents and grandparents. Education, achievement, advancement were all viewed with deepest suspicion as being something attempting to be imposed upon them by middle class teachers who did not know what the 'real' world was about - which sometimes was sadly true! Ultimately we live in a celebrity dominated culture whereby those who get somewhere by dint of hard graft are viewed with suspicion but those who are willing to abase themselves in front of the me d yah are to be applauded.... take away their 'toys' and their 'entertainment' and civil strife will most assuredly ensue with great rapidity....so, thank God for Jeremy Kyle eh?

The majority of the young people I deal with at work come from reasonably stable backgrounds with loving parents and supportive teachers. I get the impression, and I accept that this is a gross generalisation, that they have never been exposed to what one might call "the harsh realities" and so are totally naive and unprepared when hit with a social or emotional problem which they are ill-equipped to deal with. This, combined with my views on the society in which they find themselves, forms a dangerous misrepresentation of the real world, as it were.

Maybe that is why some of them treat the gift of life as a tiresome encumbrance to be dispensed with as soon as it intrudes.

Maybe they believe that "game over" isn't forever and that they merely have to press the re-boot key?

Who is Jeremy Kyle?

I remember once talking to a training team member, I was shocked that part of the initial training was to show the new recruits how to wash. Even more so when I learnt that a 17 year old had admitted that his Mum always washed him. If you don't let the kids wash themselves how on earth do these parents expect their offspring to cope with the big bad world. It would seem that the kids themselves are not at fault, but there seems to be a growing band of kids who are parents and just don't have the skills to cope. Improvise, Adapt and Overcome three words that if used properly would help a lot of the kids and the parents get on with life.

Interesting thread this one,here are a few lines attributed to Bill Gates...whether that is true or not one wonders but there are more than a few home truths here.Perhaps our society is too "risk free",so we are not allowed to make our own judgements....perhaps the "powers that be" want it that way so nobody can be sued when it goes wrong.I don't know,all I do know is that initiative/common sense/taking responsibility seem to be dwindling...yet arrogance/whats it to you? seem to be growing.Anyway,enough rambling from me.P.
""Bill Gates' Message on Life

For recent high school and college graduates, here is a list of 11 things they did not learn in school.

In his book, Bill Gates talks about how feel-good, politically-correct teachings created a full generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.

RULE 1......Life is not fair; get used to it.

RULE 2......The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

RULE 3......You will NOT make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn both.

RULE 4......If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure.

RULE 5......Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping; they called it opportunity.

RULE 6......If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

RULE 7......Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try "delousing" the closet in your own room.

RULE 8......Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life has not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades; they'll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

RULE 9......Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summer off and very few employers are interested in helping you find yourself. Do that on your own time.

RULE 10.....Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

RULE 11.....Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.""

In his original posting Paul spoke about a 'risk averse' society.....

There is a local park where we take the dog each evening. Some time back they installed the ramps etc for BMX etc use. I will admit to thinking that they were wasting my council tax. However, I have completely changed my mind and feel they should enlarge it.

Of an evening there is a large crowd of kids with BMXs and scooters making use of it. As time passes you can see them developing their 'skills' - such as spinning the bike round, rotating the handle bars and all sorts of other tricks whilst they are in the air.

It is great to see them doing something physical and not sitting in front of their PCs. What is also great is that the H&S people have not put a stop to it. Occassionally, one of them comes off but to experience life we all need scars from our childhood.

PaulT wrote:"To experience life we all need scars from our childhood"

That is a really great maxim.....

There is too much protection these days. My wife was visiting hospital last week, and there was an area for making cups of tea. However, only staff were allowed to dispense the hot water. You would have thought an adult could be trusted to deal with hot water? Maybe they are worried people don't posess kettles and only buy coffee from shops.

Duncan wrote:There is too much protection these days. My wife was visiting hospital last week, and there was an area for making cups of tea. However, only staff were allowed to dispense the hot water. You would have thought an adult could be trusted to deal with hot water? Maybe they are worried people don't posess kettles and only buy coffee from shops.

You should see the claims that patients and visitors make in hospitals - also the staff have a good go as well.

Dave wrote:

PaulT wrote:"To experience life we all need scars from our childhood"

That is a really great maxim.....

MrB wrote:

Dave wrote:

PaulT wrote:"To experience life we all need scars from our childhood"

That is a really great maxim.....

Think it depends how deep the scars go...

Bootie wrote:I remember once talking to a training team member, I was shocked that part of the initial training was to show the new recruits how to wash. Even more so when I learnt that a 17 year old had admitted that his Mum always washed him. If you don't let the kids wash themselves how on earth do these parents expect their offspring to cope with the big bad world. It would seem that the kids themselves are not at fault, but there seems to be a growing band of kids who are parents and just don't have the skills to cope. Improvise, Adapt and Overcome three words that if used properly would help a lot of the kids and the parents get on with life.

That is shocking, my Son is 6 years old and he gets himself out of bed (Wakes up everyday at 6.30am), has a wash, brushes his teeth and then gets himself dressed. All supervised obviously, but albeit, on his own iniative, he even chooses his own clothes to wear if not on a School day. Independance is an important aspect to learn without it you cannot grow to be a responsible adult.