75ZT Community

[Zeb]

I know I am not the first and probably won't be the last....just had a reassessment for the year 2007-2008 saying I owe them £630...which, whilst seemingly not a huge sum, due to circumstances this is needed like a hole in the head..needless to say I will be disputing itso, for anyone else that gets caught by this net, you may be able to make a case for not paying by using the info below.....just don't expect them to be in any hurry at all to be answering their phones:

HMRC delays in using information

If you think that HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) should have already collected the tax due in your Tax Calculation (P800) because the information had already been provided to it and HMRC have failed or delayed to use this information, then in some limited circumstances HMRC may agree not to collect it.

An 'Extra Statutory Concession' (ESC A19) allows HMRC to do this and it only applies to individual taxpayers who owe Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax. It does not apply in any other circumstances where amounts owing to HMRC are in dispute.

The circumstances are that HMRC should have used the information provided within 12 months after the end of the tax year in which it is received to notify the taxpayer of any arrears.

This guidance explains the conditions that must apply, who to contact in HMRC if they do and what information you'll need to provide.

On this page:

â– What counts as information?
â– Time limits
â– Reasonable belief that your tax affairs were in order
â– Making a claim
What counts as information?
The list below shows information that HMRC would normally use to adjust your tax code to make sure you pay the right amount of tax:

•details of a change in income
•a new job or additional job
•a taxable benefit provided by your employer, for example a company car
•start receiving a work or private pension
•receipt of state retirement, disability or widow's pension
This list is not exhaustive and each case will be treated on its own set of circumstances. This information can come from a variety of sources - you, your agent, your employer or the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

Top

Time limits
The time limit which applies for ESC A19 is where HMRC have failed to use information received about a source of income, within 12 months after the end of the tax year in which the information is received.

For example: on 1 August 2007 HMRC received information about commencement of a new pension in tax year 2007-08 and the end of that tax year is 5 April 2008. HMRC should have either issued a tax code or sent a tax calculation for the above receipt of information before 5 April 2009, which is 12 months after the last day of the tax year 2007-08.

The same time limits apply for any over-repayment of tax that is made in error and HMRC asks for the tax to be paid back.

If no information has been received then ESC A19 cannot be considered.

Exceptional Circumstances
In exceptional circumstances, arrears notified less than 12 months after the end of the relevant tax year may be considered where both of the following apply:

•HMRC failed more than once to make proper use of information received about a source of income
•HMRC allowed tax arrears to build up over two whole tax years in succession - so at least two tax year underpayments are due
Top

Reasonable belief that your tax affairs were in order
HMRC will consider the facts and circumstances of any claim that this concession should apply and decide whether it was reasonable for you to believe (prior to receiving the Tax Calculation) that your tax affairs were in order.

Top

Making a claim
If you think this concession applies to you, then you need to telephone HMRC on 0845 300 0627 indicating that you are making a claim under 'ESC A19'. You will need to provide the following information:

•what tax year and underpayment the claim relates to
•what information HMRC failed to make proper and timely use of and any supporting information
•what date this information was provided
•reason(s) why you thought your tax affairs were in order prior to receiving the Tax Calculation
HMRC will consider your claim but may need to verify details with you before giving you a decision.

Please note that there is no legal right of appeal but you can ask for another officer to review the decision made.

If you still believe that you should not have to pay the tax after a second review decision has been provided, please read 'How to Complain to HMRC' to decide if your case has not been dealt with properly.

How to complain to HM Revenue & Customs

More useful links
HMRC Extra Statutory Concession guidance booklet (PDF 336K)

HMRC Extra Statutory Concession PAYE manual 'PAYE95000'

Also worth a look here:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/f ... d-paying--

[Zeb]

Update:

After spending a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes on hold I finally spoke to somebody regarding the above. The first comment made was, 'Gosh, you appear to be well informed'...and no the lady did not seem terribly pleased about this fact.. Next the nice lady attempted to tell me that a 'Special note' on my PAYE Coding saying, 'We have changed your tax code following information you have recently provided' was 'just part of the standard letter'....having successfully demonstrated she was talking bullshit by reading her the 'Special notes' on my other coding notices she then moved on to the 'Well what information did you send us then?' approach...given that they had sent me a new tax coding for a new job that was a bit of an easy one! So, then we get onto the fact that I have P60s documenting all tax paid....which she tried to say meant that I would therefore know that I had not paid enough tax....so I pointed out that it also meant that THEY knew too....and that given that 3 years had since elapsed I had 'a reasonable belief that my tax affairs were in order'..

The upshot thus far is that a claim for ESC A19 has now been submitted and I should hear within 4 weeks what they plan to do about it...I'd be hopeful but for the fact that this lady would not give an inch...

So, not sure yet whether the moral of the story will be, 'Don't give up and don't let the buggers grind you down' or, alternatively, 'Save your energy, they'll shaft you anyway'...

[Zeb]

I know no one has posted on this thread but I believe some are following developments...

So...today I receive a recoding from HMRC clawing back their £630 in one year... Again, having waited in a queue for 45 minutes I spoke to somebody from the Tax Office who tells me that whilst I may be appealing against payment until that appeal goes through I still owe them this money and they have every right to collect it...even if it later turns out I do not owe them it! So, the best I can do is to appeal the coding on the grounds of 'financial hardship'...and they have now spread repayment over three years! Oh joy!

[Mick]

0.576923076923077 pence per day. Must cost far more to collect this than write it off. Madness

[Zeb]

0.576923076923077 pence per day. Must cost far more to collect this than write it off. Madness

Methinks it is just an exercise in vengeance as payback for when I worked for them....

[takestock]

Thanks for the thread Carl, as aresult of it just thought I would check my tax code, seems I am still being taxed for a company car that i havent had since 1st june 2010. difference in tax code is around 300 points !!

[JohnDotCom]

Thats one Dave that many people miss as well as using own car with fuel allowance when they stop the Tax doesn't.

[takestock]

Hmm.. John is there a different tax code if you use your own car for work on a mileage allowance?? Wifey does that now

[Trebor]

Just spotted this thread, and as some of you will know i work for HMRC although not directly involved in the latest round of under and overpayments that have been in the press.

The problems arise with people who are in paid employment and who have their tax deducted by their employer, at the end of every tax year a reconciliation should be done by HMRC for every taxayer in PAYE employment to make sure they have paid the correct amount, if not they either get a bill for anything unpaid or a refund if they have overpaid.

The problem is the PAYE system is very old and relies on largely paper forms a lot of which are handed from employer to employee
mid tax year and some not required to be sent in until after the tax year ends on 5 April

I am not defending HMRC,if they have had the information and left it until now to do something with it they should write off the debt in my opinion, but shoud they not refund those overpaid ? I aso think that had the country not been in as much financial debt then maybe a more common sense solution would have been found.

Secondly no one will ever convince me that contact centres offer good customer service they just save money for UK PLC as the staff who used to man a local tax office and offer a great service are no more, HMRC want everyone to do business via the contact centre and internet just like other organisations - at least the HMRC contact centres are in the UK for now !

There are lots of different circumstances why people pay the wrong amount and i will give below a couple of examples of those that are not the fault of HMRC:

someone leaves their job mid year and employer gives employee a P45 to take to the next employer but they lose it so new employer operates the wrong tax code resulting in a potential tax error come 5 April, the employer should also send a copy of the P45 to HMRC but do not always do so and anyway all this tells HMRC is that the employee has left the job not where they have moved to

someone has a company car say in May just after the tax year has started, the employer may just continue to stop tax pre the issue of the car and only tells HMRC at the end of the year when they send in their end of year returns, by this time there is already an underpayment of 11 months, and as the employer has until 19 May in the following year to send in their returns this incorrect code will continue into the new tax year. The employee could phone HMRC as soon as they get the car and ask for their code to be altered but not many people do this preferring to leave things to the employer and HMRC to sort out, this is a typical example of where HMRC will carry the can

Then we have a lot of dishonest people out there its fair game to cheat the taxman, cash in hand jobs, companies go bust and no returns get sent in, some companies may tell their employees that they are deducting tax and even issue payslips to show deductions when in reality nothing gets sent in to HMRC.

Even with the old system as said above HMRC should do a reconciliation for every taxpayer at the end of the tax year but that hides another problem, there have been staff cuts in HMRC in recent years even before the recent spending review and latest attack on staff numbers, i used to work in Cannock 5 years ago and we had over 70 staff, i returned there recently during the bad weather as i coudnt make it into Telford - only 4 staff remain

When the end of the tax year arrives there are literally millions of reconciliations to be done and no staff to do them, so ministers should stand up and be counted, these have gone unworked for a few years until now and following the development of an IT system in Telford they have all been done at a stroke causing all the recent problems

Telford has reduced from 2500 staff in 2005 to 1230 today and another 300 to go due to the recent spending review so whilst I am not saying that the public sector should be protected from cuts there does come a point when the service will be badly affected and the public will get poor service, the Govt of the day are always on a winner with this as they will just point the finger elsewhere when it is severe budget cuts that are one of the real reasons behind a lot of departments not being able to deliver what the public expect.

For the future a new system is being developed called RTI which stands for Real Time Information, then when someone leaves or has a company car HMRC will be told on line straight away rather than wait until the following 5 April and codes can be changed instantly, it should also cut down drastically on the amount of end of year under and over payments

[carlpenn]

My Wife has been having a session with the Tax office after they cocked her Tax Code up for two years. At the end of January, without warning they took my Wifes entire wage packet, all 2k of it Took a week to get it sorted and have money returned.

Amazing how they can mess up so badly and then just rape you to get the cash back. She now has a 5k Tax Debt. The attitude of the Tax office was appalling too. The first member of staff my Wife spoke to told her - and I quote - "It's not my problem" yeah, very professional

[Zeb]

Just a quick update...today I got a phonecall from the tax office to discuss how I could set up an 'easy payment scheme' to repay them the tax that was written off when I won my appeal.....it was a short phone call..

[JohnDotCom]

A certain lady was in a panic earlier for a tax demand of £800 for the year she wasn't working in. Most confusing.
But well done Zeb, they seem to be employing more morons by the day!

[Tourerfogey]

Just a quick update...today I got a phonecall from the tax office to discuss how I could set up an 'easy payment scheme' to repay them the tax that was written off when I won my appeal.....it was a short phone call..

Oh dear, all you've done now is to upset them again - I predict a full scale investigation into your financial affairs is just around the corner . . .

[Zeb]

Just a quick update...today I got a phonecall from the tax office to discuss how I could set up an 'easy payment scheme' to repay them the tax that was written off when I won my appeal.....it was a short phone call..

Oh dear, all you've done now is to upset them again - I predict a full scale investigation into your financial affairs is just around the corner . . .

I think that'd be short too.....me not having any finances to speak of that is...

[Zeb]

Just remember...you heard it here first...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14314691

[JakeWilson]

Bloomin' HMRC - they owe me £450, surprisingly - not shown up yet!